Lead Generation with SEMrush’s Paul Klebanov

Fine Point Grey Paul Klebanov SEMrush

Lead Generation with SEMrush’s Paul Klebanov

(34-minute podcast)

This week we deep dive into how you can convert visitors into customers with SEMrush’s Paul Klebanov. Paul joins our host, Maureen Jann to talk through the best ways to optimize each of your platforms, adjust to the changing customer lifecycle & marketing funnel, and the best way to advertise across channels today. We also cover the latest news, from CPG companies spending more on digital than traditional ads, Accelerators & Hackathons, & Martech driving Adtech.

 

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Featured Experts:

Paul Klebanov,  Marketing Educator & Speaker at SEMrush

Guests and Experts

EXPERTS:

Paul Klebanov,  Marketing Educator & Speaker at SEMrush

Bio: Paul Klebanov is a marketing educator and speaker at SEMrush. Paul was bit by the sales bug in elementary school, where he was famously earning up to $350/week buying and trading his friends’ sandwiches! At 14, he began creating websites for startups and local businesses. Since 2010, Paul has helped businesses generate millions of dollars online through his mastery of inbound and outbound marketing. Paul is one of the youngest Americans to build a leading ecommerce retailer – PPL Stores LLC. On this project, he generated millions of dollars in revenue before 30. Now, Paul helps young businesses bloom by teaching them to craft effective marketing strategies through coaching, training, and speeches.

 

HOST:

Maureen Jann, Director of Marketing, Point It Digital Marketing

Bio: Maureen Jann is a veteran B2B marketer whose career in Digital Media has grown up with the Internet. A self-described jill-of-all-trades, Maureen has elevated creative problem solving to an art form and enjoys the daily challenges of driving business results in unexpected ways. Her skills as an entrepreneur, content marketer, creative director and passionate people manager set her apart from the pack. Maureen has worked in every corner of marketing making her a skilled tactical resource as well as a strategic partner.  Recently, she was the captain of the marketing ship for an award-winning professional services firm and is currently creating a content marketing strategy for Point It, a digital marketing agency.

 

PRODUCER:

Tim Mohler, Sr. Marketing Manager, Point It Digital Marketing

Bio: Tim Mohler is a multichannel marketer with experience building campaigns for travel, CPG, food, beverage, and technology companies reaching both B2B and B2C customers. He’s passionate about building marketing experiences & partnerships that are relevant to a brand’s message, exciting for the customer, and most importantly deliver measurable results. At Point It, he develops digital, social and content campaigns as well as managing PointIt.com on a day to day basis.

Transcript

Maureen Jann: Welcome to Fine Point, a weekly digest of digital marketing updates. Each week we feature industry experts to talk through what’s happening in digital marketing. I’m Maureen Jann the Director of Marketing of Point It, a digital marketing agency in Seattle, Washington, and I’ll be your hostess.

 

Today, I have news, very exciting news, I am introducing Tim Mohler, Point It’s Senior Marketing Manager and my esteemed colleague. To say he would be new would be silly since he’s producing this podcast and has from the beginning, but he’s smart and he’ll be chiming in on podcasts going forward. Welcome, Tim!

 

Tim Mohler: Thank you. I’m so happy to actually be on the mic. There’s so many times I’ve had so much to say and I’ve just had to be silent and quiet.

 

Maureen Jann: Sad! Well, we’re delighted to have your voice. We’re also lucky to have him starting him today our first of many remote guests on our podcasts, today we’re chatting with Paul Klebanov, Marketing Educator at SCM Rush. Welcome, Paul!

 

Paul Klebanov: Hi. It’s great to be here.

 

Maureen Jann: You sound great. I’m excited about that because you just never know with these remote podcasts, but we’re learning! We’re learning and we’re growing, we’re adapting, and it’s fabulous. I know we’re going to be talking about lead generation today, but first we’re going to dive into the news, but welcome. We’re so glad to have you, Paul.

 

Paul Klebanov: Awesome. I’m super excited to be here, and as Tim said, I always give so much context and so I’m grateful for the opportunity to share some of the knowledge that I gathered over the years. Thank you.

 

Maureen Jann: Super. You warned me that there might be too much context and I think we might need a safe word. I’m thinking chicken. Chicken, sound good?

 

Paul Klebanov: Chicken works, yes.

 

Maureen Jann: Okay, super, super. Fantastic. Well, thanks for being a good sport. I try not to insult my guests and I hope that’s not happening.

 

Let’s dig into the headlines, let’s get started. My network is talking about consumer product groups, the future of work and my MarTech and AdTech, which is one of our favorite topics, so let’s get started.

 

The first one is a study talking about consumer product groups now spend more on digital than traditional ads but shoppers doubt they work, and this is from AdAge. The highlights that I pulled out were the trade promotions like end caps at grocery stores versus … It’s like a versus experience, right? It’s like that in-person, in front of the consumer marketing experience versus that digital marketing experience. It’s interesting because to hear that people are spending more but shoppers believe it less. I find that sort of a questions mark for me. I don’t know. What do you think, Tim?

 

Tim Mohler: I think shoppers have never quite known what impacts their purchasing behavior. The fact that they’re wondering up and down the aisles with their phone out and double checking prices and getting advertised to tells me that perhaps they just don’t quite pick up how much of that ambience digital noise is actually influencing their purchasing decisions.

 

Maureen Jann: Yeah, that could be. Paul, we could talk about context all day long, right?

 

Paul Klebanov: Yeah. Speaking about context, I think it also has to do with the way that advertises are actually advertising on these platforms. So, speaking about context, when you look at the context and the narrative in Facebook, people go on Facebook to interact with their friends and so immediately when you see an ad, it violates your expectations because you’re there to interact with your friends so the way that companies are advertising on Facebook and other platforms has a lot to do with how consumers are perceiving their message. A lot of it really has to do with how you’re advertising and that needs to change the behavior, needs to change based on the context of the platform.

 

Maureen Jann: Sure. What may be an interesting idea is that if instead we stopped focusing on serving ads in the more traditional format but actually stared talking about influencing through network as an advertising platform where you see that your friend is using this because they’re incentivized to tag themselves using a product. It may be a different conversation because then you’re saying, “Oh, my friend Joe really likes Clorox products and they got a prize,” or they got a special frame on their … You know what I mean? I don’t know. Maybe Clorox is a bad idea, bad example but-

 

Tim Mohler: It’s better than the example that was going through my head, I’ve been thinking this entire time about Charmin. As soon as you went to France I’m like, “Man, what does my friend use in their bathroom?” I’m curious. Is mine high level enough? Anyway ..

 

Paul Klebanov: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, truly interesting. Even if we talk about the distinction between these platforms, there’s a virality component to them, so now all of a sudden your ads gets served to people that like your ad and even people that don’t, so if people share your creative and so now you start thinking about things like how do you evoke and emotional response from the visitor? You have to make them feel something, make them feel happy, sad, angry, nostalgia, hope, laughter, inspiration, and so that becomes part of the creative. It’s a little bit different than in the traditional sense.

 

Maureen Jann: Yeah, absolutely. It’s funny because despite the idea that the trend that people don’t believe that it’s working … so only 60% of roughly 200 retailers in this survey said that they thought digital advertising works for brands, which was up slightly from two years ago and still lower than any other type of marketing spending for them, which is kind of interesting.

 

I mentioned Clorox, and the reason I mentioned Clorox is because Clorox is spending 45% of its paid or working media on digital, so it’s working for them. They had another quote in this article that talked about where they’re going where they are aliased, and digital is where they are aliased. People are starting to see … Analysts expect digital spending to go down in years to come, and traditional ad methods to have a comeback, but I wonder if maybe the companies who are getting the ROI that they want to see aren’t … The more they share best practices the more digital will be a successful media or mode of advertising for the rest of the consumer product groups.

 

Paul Klebanov: Yeah, I definitely agree. At the end of the day it’s where the attention is going. The attention is on digital that advertising companies and agencies they have to adapt and they have to figure out how to story tell in these platforms because that’s where the attention is. If I’m not looking at a billboard and I’m looking at my phone and scrolling through my feed then that’s where the consumers’ attention is. That’s where you have to learn how to story tell. That’s something that’s very important.

 

Tim Mohler: For me, it’s very much about … I mentioned Charmin earlier and I’ve been in that marketing background and I’ve seen them do a really, really excellent job for years now at experiential marketing but they take that and they leverage it across digital in person and retail store venues. Seeing them craft a story across all the different channels, to me, is really what this all becomes about.

 

I just read yesterday Nielsen is releasing their total content ratings here soon, measuring it across every type of screen that you have, and I really think that’s what marketing is going to be about in the near future is how do we measure and how we impact a story across every channel that comes across a user’s eyes?

 

Maureen Jann: I’m going to say that that comes all back to user experience. I’m going to wave that flag again like I always wave the flag because I think that that experience needs to be seamless.

 

What the beautiful part is is that as businesses are looking towards the future of work, which brings us to our next article, we’re finding better ways to create that experience for users through accelerators, incubators and hackathons. That’s our next article. I’m going to just transition us into that next one.

 

This is a past company article about underneath the umbrella of most innovative companies. What accelerators, incubators and hackathons tell us about the future, which is pretty exciting. I know that this was all the rage, probably five or six years ago to a point where it became comedy, and they actually mentioned how it gets parodied all over the place in this article, which I thought was a lot of fun. But the fact of the matter is they work, they just straight up work. The list of companies that have come out of those why, out of Y Combinator include Airbnb, Reddit, Striped, Dropbox, Twitch, Cruise and hundreds more. Those are big names! They’re not joking around. When you think about incubators you don’t think about Airbnb level companies necessarily, but it’s a good reminder.

 

The next part of this was interesting, so how these these different ways of talking about things tells us about the future of work. Creativity out of large companies tends to lack the culture that really thrives that creative stride. For instance, large companies who still need innovation and creativity as a core part of their company function are using these ideas of the accelerators and the incubators to bring people together in small creative groups so that they can innovate together, to create more interesting products, things with a better user experience, things that solve problems that some consumers didn’t even know they had. I thought that was a pretty interesting idea.

 

Then, the other part about this one that I thought was pretty interesting is, basically hackathons. That type of approach to work helps companies systematically build agility and organizations to create a flexible work environment geared towards innovation. I don’t know about you, Paul. how does SEM Rush handle creativity?

 

Paul Klebanov: Yeah. At SEM Rush we have a flat structure, so we have a team-based structure, and it’s based on this exact hypothesis, the idea that you have a small team of people, different specializations that come together and they have the ability to exchange context, I’m back to that word, context, and then they come together and then they create a campaign.

 

Today, you can run an advertising campaign really quickly and efficiently and effectively and so you don’t have to necessarily have a large budget to run an experiment, you can run small incremental tests and then based on those tests, you can make it iterative changes and then improve over time so you can launch a minimal viable product, so you launch a campaign. I think this is something that is crucial. It’s very important.

 

Maureen Jann: Sure. I know that in-house at Point It, we are focused on not only agility for our clients but agility internally as well. Tim was going to mention something earlier I thought was worth bringing in.

 

Tim Mohler: Yeah. Here at Point It we’ve actually started a concept that we’re calling shark tank, of course, riffing on the television show-

 

Maureen Jann: No trademark infringement. No trademark infringement.

 

Tim Mohler: Of course not. Let’s hope this never ends up transcripted. Sorry, I hit me in the eyeball. But it’s really interesting.

 

I think it’s hard in our daily lives to, especially you have all of these tasks and it’s hard to do something that’s not just evolutionary in your daily role, and to set aside time and to really figure out where is that next big piece of growth, what questions are customers asking, which we could deliver on, that we have the skills to deliver on, is it valuable enough? It takes time to build that into a business case to figure out what resources would be required.

 

I’m really excited here that we just kicked this whole process off. We’re still thinking about our ideas, and Maureen and I are on different teams, so I will not share any details whatsoever, but it will involve a happy hour tomorrow night for brainstorming purposes.

 

Maureen Jann: Oh, really? I think you might have the competitive edge right now. I don’t like that at all.

 

I think that this whole idea of flexibility and creativity and fast changing work is why I got into marketing in the first place because I love that part of our jobs here, in any gig, but in every gig that I’ve had the opportunity gives me opportunity to be innovative and agile and creative. My job is to create innovative projects and that’s pretty exciting. Not everybody gets to say that, so I feel really blessed. That sounds very cheesy but, blessed to be in this space and be able to share-

 

Paul Klebanov: Yeah.

 

Maureen Jann: Yeah.

 

Paul Klebanov: Exactly, yeah. I was just thinking about flexibility and it’s so true because things are changing so fast, like our team members running an advertising campaign and they’re running a split test, they’re the human sensor. They’re the ones that are surfacing the problem when it first comes, so it only makes sense that they make the decision of what to change. And because they could run more and more experiments, you want your team to be able to make those decisions, to be those human sensors and not necessarily go through a hierarchy or a large process so you can make that change because right now everything’s changing. It’s so much quicker and faster that I think that’s important.

 

Maureen Jann: Yeah, absolutely. I think you make a great point about … there’s all this talk about automation and bots and AI, but the fact of the matter is that that’s not going to take over for regular human beings talking, helping to solve problems. Machines will be able to solve the small issues, but i think that those big strategies can be informed by machines, but need to be judged by humans. That human sense or concept, I think, is very timely.

 

Cool. The next one, speaking of machines and machine learning, is why MarTech should drive AdTech. This is a big conversation. I’ve been monitoring this because I find mergers and acquisitions super fascinating. I know that sounds nerdy but it’s true.

 

I think it was late last year, we were talking on the podcast about how Martech and AdTech is actually merging in a lot of ways and spaces, so in this particular Martech today article, we’re talking about how Martech is really the home, it’s the engine that contains all of the customer data, all of the first and third party data sources, look at profiles and patterns in the data to draw conclusions. Martech like CRMs and CMSs and transactional account platforms as well as website data, are just this incredible space to collect and drive innovation in AdTech. Essentially, customer data should be the engine of the Ad Tech stack but often aren’t due to the dreaded silos. We talk a lot about silos in marketing, although it’s been one of those topics that’s fallen of the radar because shinier, crazier things, our current political climate have probably taken over, but the baselines is that silos are still keeping us from learning from each other in the marketing spaces, especially in the larger, more enterprise companies, and we’re still struggling with this. This is something that still holding us back as we grow and change and we learn, we’re still having a hard time putting all of these systems together and all of these departments together so we can learn from each other. Challenges, big challenges.

 

Paul Klebanov: Yes, definitely. Putting an entire marketing stack together. I think that the digital space is a lot more complex and so it opens up possibilities to simulate your business so you know exactly what kind of ROI you could expect before you run your advertising campaign, and so there’s a lot more analytics, there’s a lot more infrastructure in the back-end. It helps because you’re able to, again, simulate your entire business before you actually run your campaigns, but it’s also complex.

 

Maureen Jann: It is. There a lot of investment in the legacy systems too, so I think people are hesitant on breaking down those walls because they’ve spent so much money in the past but I think it goes back to whole idea that there can be any sacred cows in marketing.

 

Paul Klebanov: Exactly.

 

Maureen Jann: Yeah, I don’t know. Tim, do you have anything to add to that one?

 

Tim Mohler: No, I’m thinking of some of my past experiences and there’s a lot to overcome, there’s the politics of it, there’s moving from a competitive environment into one where everybody is one the same team and playing as one team, which you would think would have always been true but thieftums and really what builds up these different areas of the company overtime has really been a challenge, I think. I think that that continues onward.

 

The other thing that I think continues to be a challenge is just that for a lot of companies, those old legacy systems are their backbone. I come from Travel and I can tell you that those legacy systems may be ancient and they may hold those companies back, thinking airlines and cruise lines in particular, but at the same time, they always work. Their systems rarely have ever failed.

 

Maureen Jann: They may only do two things but they do those two things really, really well.

 

Tim Mohler: It’s the two things, though that your business is based on. Navigating the move to newer systems that aren’t as simple or more complicated and have more more potentials for failure is really a very difficult thing and when it needs to be done cautiously and with a lot of long-term planning and investment.

 

Maureen Jann: I love this conversation. It’s indicative of the way that Tim and I worked, Tim is slow and well considered and ensures that he looks at all the variables, and I go, “That looks okay. Let’s try that. That’s how this works.” It’s a good time.

 

Tim Mohler: This is the fear that IT had every time they talked with marketing.

 

Maureen Jann: That’s why we don’t ask IT for anything anymore. We just do it ourselves. Hey, yo. Anyway, moving on.

 

Paul Klebanov: Yeah, yeah. Tim brings on an excellent point about when in these complex systems, it opens up more opportunity for failure if you do something incorrectly or make a mistake. People don’t realize that, just an example from the top of my head, when you have ESP that sends out emails to your customers that opt into your email list, little things like having a user say that that email is spam or put it in their spam box could potentially ruin your email reputation. So other users that get emails, they’re no longer in-boxed to go to your spam folder. Now you start thinking about the ways to improve experience with your emails so they don’t land in peoples’ spam boxes. How do you improve email reputation? Those slight mistakes, if you don’t consider them, in the long run if your business gets blacklisted or your ESP, your IP gets blacklisted that’s it. Every time you send out an email, it goes into your spam. That’s just one piece that came up as someone is talking.

 

Maureen Jann: Yeah, but you guys, you know that these systems are designed to be more efficient and allow for less of these big gaps. Whereas, if you were using a legacy system until it literally dies on the vine, then you are going to end up having way more challenges, you’re going to do way more catch up. You have to upgrade. It’s not an option, you have to do it.

 

Honestly, it should be more flexible stack because the technology is changing too quickly and the likelihood that your old legacy stuff is going to be working on old best practices means that today’s marketing is going to be less efficient and, probably less impactful. That’s my theory.

 

Paul Klebanov: Yeah, I definitely agree. I definitely agree.

 

Maureen Jann: Anyway, and so the last thought is just where this type of Martech and Ad Tech working together as a combined, sexy, awesome machine is a perfect example of problematic Ad buyings being done successfully. They’re using audiences from customer data, we’re using creative from our innovative marketing departments, and then we’re also using the idea of AdTech of delivering those ads to the best people at the best time. It’s just interesting.

 

Paul Klebanov: Yes, yeah. You gave me one more really great example of how they work together. I’m just thinking about how we do things here at SEM Rush, and even behavioral economics, the idea that when somebody is on your email list, they’re an existing users and they browse around your website, you can send them emails based on just their behaviors. You no longer need to survey them and ask them questions.

 

For example, if you have a large list of users and you have someone that goes in your website and they go to a one-on-one section, or an education section, or they’re looking to get a new job so they go to your employment section, you can start sending them emails and nurturing them based on the actions that they’re taking on your product, on your website. It’s becoming a lot more behavioral. I think that’s very powerful, which is very important.

 

Maureen Jann: Absolutely. Marketing automation, and the faster it changes, the more sophisticated it gets, the better it is … The trick is really now, since people don’t fill out forms anymore, how do you cook it for those people so you can serve that context? Question marks, hands up in the air. Big antsy shrugs for everybody.

 

Well, on that note, Paul, it’s super great to have you here. I’m delighted to hear your thoughts. I’d love to learn a little bit more about what you do at SEM Rush, can you tell me about that?

 

Paul Klebanov: Yes. As I came into the company, into SEM Rush, I was an inbound marketing strategist so I love email marketing, I love nurturing the prospect from the open to the close of the sale and guiding them through the buyer’s journey. But then what happened is, as you can probably tell, I love talking about marketing so I just annoyed everyone in the company. I’m like, “I want to speak. I want to talk.” Then, finally I started as a webinar host and then when I was doing webinars, I slowly progressed and I started doing outreach and booking speaking engagements, like what I’m doing now, so I get an opportunity to go on stage and talk about what I’m passionate about, which is marketing. That’s where I’m at currently.

 

Maureen Jann: I’m excited. Well, it works out for us because we get a fantastic guest and you get a space where you can talk about all of your oodles of knowledge, so let’s dive into the first question so we can get you started.

 

We talked a little when we were brainstorming for this podcast about your passion about leads and conversion, so can you tell me about what you suggest people do to convert visitors into customers?

 

Paul Klebanov: Yeah. Before I give you a specific answer, a quote comes to mind, it’s one of my favorite quotes, it’s by Saint Thomas Aquinas and he was a religious monk in the medieval times, and so when he first said this he wasn’t talking about marketing conversions, he was talking about the conversion of the mind, conversion of beliefs, religious conversion, but I think it applies. Whenever I tell this to someone, it becomes really clear.

 

What he said was that, “If you want to convert someone, you want to first go to where they are, then you want to introduce yourself, you want to say hello and then you want to take them by the hand and you want to guide them to where you want them to go.” It applies to marketing because if we look at marketing, the first thing that you need to do is you need to figure out where your customers are, what their problems are and then you need to make a list of those websites, or those forums, or those channels and podcasts that they listen to so then you can go to where they are and then you can introduce yourself, you can say hello, and then you can guide them to where you want them to go, maybe it’s a landing page or it’s a podcast. That’s really how I think about conversion in the digital world.

 

Maureen Jann: Well, this is a first. I can’t say that we’ve ever had a quote from a monk on the podcast, this is a first for us. I feel like it’s kind of a landmark. I’m curious, is that a verbatim quote? Because that guy had pretty casual language.

 

Paul Klebanov: Yeah, I think it’s paraphrased. I paraphrased it. I don’t have the exact source, but see what happens is I read books and Wikipedia articles. Sometimes at night I can’t sleep so I just go through like pages of Wikipedia articles and I just log everything, and then I have all of these different quotes and sayings, and I’m like, “Where did I get this? I have no idea.”

 

Maureen Jann: Okay. So for a man who collects a lot of information, I need to know what tool do you use to keep that straight?

 

Paul Klebanov: I’ve tried many tools before and none of them worked for me. So what I do is I have this application, I’m actually going to go on the bottom of my computer, hopefully nothing crashes, it’s call Scrivener. We could put it in the show notes.

 

Maureen Jann: Yeah, we’ll put it in the show notes.

 

Paul Klebanov: Basically what I do is I just create like … Every single when I come in to work I create a folder and a document with the date, and if anything ever comes across in that day that I find interesting, I just log it under different bullet points and then I just categorize it at the end of the day and put it into the program, so then I have information. “Here’s all the informational quotes about marketing that you like.” That’s the way it works. It’s simple.

 

Tim Mohler: I’m still impressed, you have to be so disciplined. I just throw everything into Evernote and hope I can figure out where it is later. Tagging things and sorting them, wow. I’m just impressed you pull that quote right off the top of your head.

 

Maureen Jann: Yeah, me too. Well done. I mean, I don’t want to get too off topic, although that is really interesting because maybe we do an organization, maybe we do a podcast on keeping yourself organized. That might be interesting.

 

Tim Mohler: It would very, very well.

 

Maureen Jann: I know it would.

 

Considering what you were telling us about taking your customer by the hand and, I’m assuming that you’re saying that this is a best practice that marketers should be doing or they are doing or are starting to do, something along those lines, right?

 

Paul Klebanov: Yeah, correct. It’s very simple, even a list of keywords, those keywords thar people are putting into Google, that is what they’re searching for at the time so that is the conversation that you’re tapping into. Once you tap into the conversation and they click on that ad wherever it is, maybe it’s on a website, on a placement if you’re advertising through GDN, where do they go next? Maybe they’ll go on a landing page where you continue that conversation. Once they’re on the landing page, what do you want them to do next? Maybe you want to generate a lead and have them opt in to get a piece of information that will help them solve their problem or further nurture them through the process. You start building systems around this quote, by tapping into their conversation and slowly guiding them to where you want them to go, which is the solution to their issue.

 

Maureen Jann: How are you seeing platforms adjust to this perspective?

 

Paul Klebanov: Platforms, so for example, if we talk about ESP’s email service providers, the ability for you to now be able to … When you talk about platforms, do you mean social platforms like different advertising channels like Twitter, Instagram?

 

Maureen Jann: Yeah. Let’s focus on the advertising channels just because this is a digital marketing podcast and we like advertising-

 

Paul Klebanov: Awesome. An important thing, going back to the very beginning, is that when you look through advertisement, any platform, for example, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Pinterest, you need to first get on these platforms and understand the context around these different platforms, so you can learn how to story tell on these platforms.

 

For example, as I mentioned before, on Facebook, on Facebook it’s important to note that 90% of the visitors on Facebook are using Facebook on their mobile devices and they’re scrolling their feed extremely fast and when they’re on there, they’re interacting with their friends. Now, when you think of it that way, first, they don’t have a mouse so a lot of times I see these Facebook ads, when I see a graphic and in the graphic there’s a CTA but I can’t click on that CTA because it’s graphic. I can’t go to that website. You have to put the link right into the copy. Does that make sense?

 

Maureen Jann: Yeah.

 

Paul Klebanov: Other examples that are like the actual creative, so the creative needs to stand out because if I’m scrolling through my feed at 90 miles an hour, I need to have bright colors, I need my creative to stand out. Also, I spend a lot of time collecting different ads, and the top performing ads on Facebook usually comes from companies that have some kind of a spokesperson at the forefront because connecting to people on Facebook, it’s part of the narrative. People are there to connect to other people. So when you have a spokesperson making a video or you have a graphic with a person, and it’s more in line with that conversation, it doesn’t violate users’ expectations. Does that make sense?

 

Maureen Jann: Sure. No, that makes sense.

 

Paul Klebanov: Twitter is unique because in Twitter, it’s the only social platform that allows you to actually drop in and listen to other people’s conversations. In the office right now where three people are talking, I could just randomly come and say hi and just give my two cents. It would be kind of weird. I’m just randomly dropping into other people’s conversations.

 

Maureen Jann: Don’t do that, It does get weird.

 

Paul Klebanov: On Twitter, it’s allowed, and not only is it allowed, it’s actually encouraged. On Twitter, if you’re going on Twitter, you’re actually listening and when you’re listening to what other people are saying, now you can tap into other people’s conversations. You can tap into hashtags, you can tap into influencers and now piggyback off of those conversations to bring more awareness to your creative and to your brand. This is what I mean when I talk about learning the narrative around a specific platform before you start advertising on their.

 

Just one more, I may?

 

Maureen Jann: Yeah, go ahead.

 

Paul Klebanov: Also, I’m thinking about but the e-commerce examples that we had. When I had my e-commerce business … so Pinterest, Pinterest unlike Facebook that maps your social graph, now you have Pinterest that maps your interest graph. Right now they’re predominately female in the united states, but if somebody aspires to remodel their house with a new kitchen or they want to go on a vacation and they aspire to one day be able to go on this vacation, that’s what Pinterest is used.

 

If you have products and services in the e-commerce base then may be Pinterest would be a good social platform that you would actually concentrate on versus something like Instagram, for example, that doesn’t let you talk click out to your e-commerce site or to a landing page.

 

Maureen Jann: Right. Once you double-click on that, and we’re talking about other platforms that are evolving really quickly like Instagram and Snapchat, it really takes a whole concept to the next level. It’s more personal, it’s more one-on-one, and being able to advertise on that level is really tricky and it takes a lot of skill. It’ll be interesting to see how that formulates as new platforms pop up and the new narratives need to happen.

 

Paul Klebanov: Yeah.

 

Maureen Jann: Very cool. Well, we’re hitting the end of our time here and, and it’s just been fabulous hearing from you. I hear that there’s some cool stuff going on in SEM Rush. I know you guys are offering a 14-day trial with SEM Rush, is that correct?

 

Paul Klebanov: Yes, that is correct.

 

Maureen Jann: Fabulous. Well, we’ll include links to that in our show notes that way you have some opportunities so if you would like to try out at SEM Rush and get just a touch of that expertise from Paul and the team that he works then we’ll make sure you get access to that.

 

Thanks everybody for joining us out in podcast land. We’ll be including any links like I had mentioned in the show notes for reference. I’m so glad you all got to meet Tim Mohler today. He’s one of my favorite people, and he’s supersmart, and Paul was a pleasure. Full of useful tips and interesting thoughts. It’s been a pleasure as well.

 

If you have any suggestions for guest or topics that you’d like to see us cover, let us know by emailing us at marketing@poinit.com, but sadly it’s time to say goodbye. I’m Maureen Jann signing off from Fine Point Digital Marketing Updates in conference room a.k.a. the Point It Studios. Find us on Twitter for our latest content, podcasts, and more. Subscribe to our podcast via your favorite podcast distribution source including iTunes. We’re looking forward to next week, but for now stay on point.