Paid Search for B2B Marketers

Fine Point Grey Frank Coyle, President

Paid Search for B2B Marketers

(25-minute podcast)

This week we dive into the challenges B2B companies face when integrating paid search (PPC) into their digital marketing mix, who it works for, and best practices to maximize your results. We also take a look at this week’s news, Amazon’s Alexa surpassing 10,000 skills, Google leveraging machine learning to filter out hurtful comments, emoji’s, and Facebook Jobs’ challenge to LinkedIn. Our host, Maureen Jann is joined by Brenna Teichen, one of our paid search experts and Frank Coyle Point It’s president.

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Featured Experts:

Frank Coyle, President

Brenna Teichen, Client Manager

Guests and Experts


Frank Coyle. President

Bio: Frank Coyle is the President of Point It, a digital marketing agency in Seattle, Washington.  His mantra is “results, results, results” and is driven by making clients and employees successful.  Prior to leading Point It, his career spanned marketing, finance, and programming in a number of verticals. Frank brings both his education, University of Glasgow for his BS in Mathematics and at Stanford University Graduate School of Business for his MBA, and a hands-on approach to keep up with a quickly changing technology landscape. For fun, Frank likes to golf, read and eat delicious food.

Brenna Teichen, Client Manager

Bio: Brenna has been a key member of Point It’s paid search team for over two years, with a strong background in both paid search and campaign management at Marchex and prior to that at Zulily. She’s also a passionate Lady Gaga fan & fitness enthusiast!


Maureen Jann, Director of Marketing, Point It Digital Marketing

Bio: Maureen Jann is a veteran B2B marketer whose career in Digital Media has grown up with the Internet. A self-described jill-of-all-trades, Maureen has elevated creative problem solving to an art form and enjoys the daily challenges of driving business results in unexpected ways. Her skills as an entrepreneur, content marketer, creative director and passionate people manager set her apart from the pack. Maureen has worked in every corner of marketing making her a skilled tactical resource as well as a strategic partner.  Recently, she was the captain of the marketing ship for an award-winning professional services firm and is currently creating a content marketing strategy for Point It, a digital marketing agency.



Maureen Jann: Hi, everybody, and welcome to Fine Point. A weekly digest of digital marketing updates. Each week, we feature industry experts to talk through what’s happening in digital marketing, and this week is no exception.


I’m Maureen Jann, the Director of Marketing at Point It, a digital marketing agency here in Seattle, Washington, and I’ll be your hostess.


I have a very important question for everybody in the audience right now. Is it hot or cold, because across the country, you can’t really tell right now, it’s like 70 degrees in Chicago one day, and like, 20 degrees the next. It’s crazy pants. Like yesterday, we had rain, snow, hail, and sunshine in the span of four hours. It was pure mayhem. The sun comes out in the Point It offices today because we have Brenna Teichen and Frank Coyle talking about B2B paid search today. So welcome, guys, thanks for coming.


Frank Coyle: Great to be here.


Brenna Teichen: Yeah, thanks for having us.


Frank Coyle: And I’m hot. Are you hot as well?


Brenna Teichen: It’s hot in the office. It is hot. It’s probably cold outside.


Maureen Jann: Yeah, you’re right. I was warm in the office yesterday, and then I left the office and I was like, “Oh, where’s my jacket?”


Frank Coyle: Yeah.


Maureen Jann: Yeah. We’re going to start out with a couple of headlines. We’re going to talk about Alexa. We’re going to talk about Google filtering comments, which I thought was really interesting. And then Facebook jobs.


So, I’m thinking we should just dive right in.


Brenna Teichen: Sounds good.


Maureen Jann: Cool. So, the first one was from Marketing Land, and it’s Alexa … “Amazon Alexa Surpasses 10,000 Skills.” So, I learned something very important here. I have historically hated, like, the idea of the home assistants. They creep me out, like a big time. But then we got one as a gift, and so now the Amazon Dot … Isn’t that what it’s called? The Dot?


Frank Coyle: Mm-hmm (affirmative), the Echo.


Maureen Jann: Yeah, so, we have one now. It turns out it’s really handy for, like, singing bedtime songs when you’re reading books to the kiddo. I have a four year old, you know, it’s like, “Hey Alexa, put on bedtime music.”


And it magically makes the bedtime …


Frank Coyle: Oh, really? So you don’t have to sing?


Maureen Jann: We still sing. We still sing.


Frank Coyle: Yeah. Sing along?


Maureen Jann: But this is just in the background, you know?


Frank Coyle: Oh, that’s good!


Maureen Jann: It’s like classical music to read your bedtime stories to.


Frank Coyle: Yeah, very good.


Maureen Jann: And that was pretty cool, so there’s that and … But I know that you have an Alexa, right?


Frank Coyle: No, we’ve got the Google Home.


Maureen Jann: Google Home. That’s right.


Frank Coyle: We love it. You know, same thing. Music, MPR, recipes, odd questions, you know? It’s basically like doing a Google search, but voice.


Maureen Jann: Yeah.


Frank Coyle: Yeah, it’s become part of our family.


Maureen Jann: Did you name it something besides Alexa?


Frank Coyle: Let’s see. No, it’s still … Well, no, it’s Google Home, so I couldn’t [inaudible 00:02:22] shun Alexa, ’cause it would probably …


Maureen Jann: Oh, Google Home. Yes, you’re right, it would … It probably would, you’re right.


Frank Coyle: But the thing what I find is really interesting is that, when my wife tells it to stop …


Maureen Jann: Yeah.


Frank Coyle: I think it’s male-oriented because when my wife says, “Hey Google, stop.”


It goes quiet for a bit, and then just continues. You know, it’s like my wife said something to me, “Yeah, sure,” and then I continue doing … So when I bark at it it goes,


“I’ll stop!” And it stops.


Maureen Jann: Is it a misogynistic Google Home? That’s not cool!


Frank Coyle: It might be. I don’t know, but that’s how our house works at the moment. Or our Home … Google Home.


Maureen Jann: That’s too funny. Do you have one Brenna?


Brenna Teichen: Yeah, so I got one for Christmas. I use it primarily when I’m cooking and my hands are too busy to set a timer, or something.


Maureen Jann: Oh.


Frank Coyle: Yeah, that’s a good thing for it.


Brenna Teichen: I just ask it to set a timer. And sometimes if I’m too hungry, then I ask how much time is left. Other than that, sometimes she is a bit creepy. ‘Cause I’ll be watching TV and she’ll talk randomly.


Frank Coyle: Oh.


Maureen Jann: Oh, no!


Brenna Teichen: “I didn’t hear that, can you repeat it?”  Or something like that, and it kind of weirds me out. But she probably is just picking something up on the TV, or something.


Maureen Jann: That or it’s the ghost in the machine.


Brenna Teichen: Yeah.


Maureen Jann: “Oh, no!”


Well, what’s interesting … I learned, from this article, that apparently the skills function on the Amazon Alexa is the equivalent of, like, apps.


Frank Coyle: Hm. Yeah.


Maureen Jann: So they’ve been doing this huge developer cording process to help build more apps for Alexa. So that way … I mean, it’s really interesting to think about what that looks like.


Frank Coyle: 10,000. I mean that’s incredible.


Maureen Jann: Right?


Frank Coyle: I want to see them.


Maureen Jann: I know, I bet there’s a list. I just didn’t … I didn’t have it, but I just thought that was fascinating. I didn’t realize that. So, apparently the most popular ones are gaming and news. Popular skills are gaming and news. As I learn about this, I’m clearly under-utilizing this little doo-dad in our living room, but … We also have an Amazon Fire, which is interesting. So, like, you can pull up TV shows that way, but it’s not quite as smart as the …


Frank Coyle: As Alexa?


Maureen Jann: The Dot, yeah. So, anyway. It’ll be curious to see … I’m curious how they’re going to end up monetizing this. ‘Cause you know they’re going to monetize it, right? It’s just a matter of time before they find, maybe add tech apps? That serve based on what you’re asking about. Or maybe they’re just collecting information so they can serve it to you in the web space.


Frank Coyle: Yeah. [inaudible 00:04:34] there.


Maureen Jann: Yeah. It could be.


Frank Coyle: I think it’s just more integration in Amazon. You know, just more part of … It just becomes part of your house. Part of your life. ‘Cause, like, Prime now some people will go like, “So … ” It’d just like rule Amazon, or Amaze-on.


Maureen Jann: Yeah. You don’t have Amazon. Amazon has you.


Frank Coyle: That’s right.


Maureen Jann: Fantastic. So, the next article that I found out, which I thought was just … I was nerding out on this today.


Frank Coyle: I love this one! Oh, it’s great!


Maureen Jann: Yeah. It’s really interesting, right?


Frank Coyle: Yeah.


Maureen Jann: So, Google released this tool to help filter out hurtful comments online, and this is from Search Engine Journal. The big takeaway, for me, was that Google has been compiling hurtful comments. So, there’s this huge database of hurtful comments. Like, who does that? Google does it.


Frank Coyle: I’ll tell you who does it. So, the way … Before apps were actually in the phone, we used to have this desktop app, it was called Insults. So, whoever was first in in the morning would program it.


So, I’d do in the morning, “Hey, Frank, you miserable pile of a smoldering,” and it just … Every sort of thing that was in there. It was brilliant, but that was a long time ago.


Now, seeing this is really good because it’s going to cut down a lot of the … I mean, I see that already doing with the New York Times.


Maureen Jann: Yeah.


Frank Coyle: I think it was on a beta program for it.


Maureen Jann: Oh.


Frank Coyle: Yeah.


Maureen Jann: That makes sense.


Frank Coyle: Which is really good. A lot of clean up is going to happen here.


Maureen Jann: Yeah, it’s heavy troll territory right now.


Brenna Teichen: Well, I think I saw in the article that it’s English only. So, I’m curious that they haven’t really rolled that out into other really common languages.


Maureen Jann: Maybe other countries don’t insult each other as much as Americans.


Brenna Teichen: Maybe.


Frank Coyle: Yeah, highly likely.


Maureen Jann: Entirely possible. And given the current political climate, you know …


Frank Coyle: [crosstalk 00:06:11] flying around.


Maureen Jann: You just never know what happens. Sure, sure. Yeah, so. It’s an API for publishers, which uses machine learning to filter out hurtful comments. Like you said, New York Times is one of the beta programs which is pretty interesting.


Frank Coyle: Mm-hmm (affirmative)


Maureen Jann: I was thinking about, like, what are some of the types of websites that that would be most useful? Because I know that this is a kind of vetting process that we do. At least from a programmatic perspective. When you’re buying advertising in bulk, like, you have to make sure that the sites … You have to do some spot checking to make sure that those sites aren’t fake, or offensive, to your publisher. Or to your advertiser. So, I wonder how this is going to be used on websites beyond just comments.


Frank Coyle: Yeah, that’d be tough. ‘Cause then their just having to read what’s actually on the site themselves, as opposed to that.


Maureen Jann: Yeah.


Frank Coyle: Yeah, I’m not sure about that one.


Maureen Jann: Me neither. So, aside from news sites, I’m just curious if there’s any other things that we might see, like, comments being an issue on.


Frank Coyle: I tell you, a lot to see is, like reviews, like a restaurant reviews.


Maureen Jann: Oh.


Frank Coyle: Or you get an Amazon review, and someone gives it a one-star. A book you’re reading and, “Oh the book was late, I’m giving it a one-star.”


I mean, give me a break. So, that’s stupid reviews …


Maureen Jann: Stupid reviews filter?


Frank Coyle: Yeah.


Maureen Jann: Oh. What other kinds of filters would we like to see?


Frank Coyle: Right, yeah.


Brenna Teichen: None of them are work appropriate.


Frank Coyle: “I didn’t like the color of wallpaper in the restaurant, one-star,” you know?


Maureen Jann: Yelp would probably really like that.


Frank Coyle: Yeah.


Maureen Jann: That would probably make them very, very happy. Yeah, I agree with you there.


Then, I’m curious if there’s other similar algorithms that might help us identify the questionable news sources through common phrases, might be an interesting conversation. A little while … One of our recent podcasts, we were talking to Bing, Alan a client a Bing.


Frank Coyle: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah.


Maureen Jann: Bing ads, and we were talking about how Facebook is really going after, like, the fake news issues. That was an interesting conversation, because, you know … Then we talked about how they had to get out of their core competency of being a social site to ensure that the quality of the information that is being posted on there isn’t, basically, impacting U.S. elections, you know?


Frank Coyle: Yeah. Right.


Maureen Jann: No big deal. But I just thought that was pretty interesting, and I wonder if we’re going to see this kind of a process for that as well, so … I don’t know.


Frank Coyle: Yeah, [inaudible 00:08:27]


Maureen Jann: Yeah.


Frank Coyle: That’s great.


Maureen Jann: We shall see. So, the next one is, “Facebook Jobs Is Easy To Use, But Will It Replace LinkedIn?” This one’s from Forbes, and I have seen … Like, you’ve seen Facebook encroach on LinkedIn for a while, I think, you know?


Frank Coyle: Mm-hmm (affirmative)


Maureen Jann: They started asking about jobs. Now they can combine your skill information with your personal preferences, and your behavior, and the kinds of hobbies that you have. I mean, there’s just … That is getting uncomfortable.


Frank Coyle: Especially, you know, what you might put up there. If it’s your real name, or not. Or you put some nickname, or something. I actually tried it before in … I was going through the process of applying for a barbecue phone … Where you have to call places and get peoples email for barbecue stores, so they can get on their email list.


Maureen Jann: Oh.


Frank Coyle: But it’s … The thing about it is, it’s a simple process, but it’s probably good for, not professional jobs …


Maureen Jann: No.


Frank Coyle: But that, I mean, is where you’d probably want to send a cover letter, and a big resume.


Brenna Teichen: Right.


Frank Coyle: But just for, maybe, short gigs or things like that. Although there are a number of, you know, there’s mortgage companies, registered nurse, the photographers. I did look for a CM manager, ’cause we are looking for, you know, Senior Client Managers on paid search and paid social. Didn’t see those.


Maureen Jann: Well.


Frank Coyle: But, you never know.


Maureen Jann: Yeah.


Frank Coyle: I mean, little bit … It starts off as not great, but in a year’s time it might be completely different.


Maureen Jann: Yeah, and I’m seeing … I’ve seen job sites where they’re slowly reducing, like, the amount of information you need to submit to them.


Frank Coyle: Yeah.


Maureen Jann: So, like, cover letters are not really mandatory for some companies. They have something called Instant Apply, that I’ve seen.


Frank Coyle: Mm-hmm (affirmative)


Maureen Jann: And then you just hit the Instant Apply, and they take all your LinkedIn information, and just send it over.


Frank Coyle: Yeah. Right.


Maureen Jann: If the company is, like, making conscious decision that cover letters aren’t that important to them, I mean, this could be well on their way. So, I don’t know it’s kind of interesting.


It was unveiled last week, and the Apply Now button pre-populates information from the profile. There’re … Current advertisers are seeing issues with the relevant listings. So, companies are still inclined to go with typical job boards. But it sounds like they’re experimenting with the features, and need to get a little more data just from our early adapters to work on like, “How’s the UI going? What can we do better?”


I mean, Facebook and Amazon are UR masters, so it’s really just a matter of time.


Frank Coyle: I wonder how many companies are actually paying to be on there, or to select some [inaudible 00:10:57], ’cause based on what I saw there, I wouldn’t like to be posting a job there.


Maureen Jann: Yeah.


Frank Coyle: But who knows, we’ll find out.


Maureen Jann: Well … I know that the way they rolled out the Instagram ads, they white-listed some companies first.


Frank Coyle: Yeah.


Maureen Jann: So, I imagine that’s probably a consistent approach for Facebook. Unless they decided to pivot entirely, which they do frequently, so, who knows.


Frank Coyle: Sure.


Maureen Jann: So, I don’t know that’s a really interesting one. How’ve you applied for jobs in the past? Has it mostly been job boards or …


Brenna Teichen: Mostly job boards, or going through LinkedIn.


Frank Coyle: Not recently, though.


Maureen Jann: Not recently.


Brenna Teichen: Not recently. Yeah. The last time, with this job, yeah last week …


Maureen Jann: Let’s make sure we’re clear.


Brenna Teichen: Was through a referral, so, I actually didn’t have to do too much on that front. So, mostly job boards or finding contact information and going through LinkedIn. I’m curious if people … While companies are having that feature, I’m curious how many people, potential applicants, would actually be willing to actually apply through Facebook.


Maureen Jann: Yeah.


Brenna Teichen: It is very personal, and getting people to trust that degree of professionalism … Not that people have to be unprofessional.


Maureen Jann: Right.


Brenna Teichen: But, a lot of times, you’re showing a very intimate part of, you know, your life. I’m not sure how much people would want to disclose via an application.


Maureen Jann: That’s fair.


Brenna Teichen: Especially when, you know, it’s still pretty prevalent when people are debating whether or not certain characteristics are being evaluated. Like, their last name. What’s their background? What race are they?


Maureen Jann: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah.


Brenna Teichen: I just imagine that there’s probably going to be some hurdles there for Facebook if they have that visibility into an applicant to that degree.


Maureen Jann: I think you’re right. That’s on the level of being able to pull data about DNA, and that kind of thing. It becomes really, really intimate. I have a personal theory about social media, though. It’s like … I think you should be … If you’re in the right space, and I know there’re probably exceptions to this rule, that you should be bringing your whole self to work anyway. So, like, you just are the person you are. This is probably easier for me, because I’m kind of like a one-note pony when it comes to this. But, just bringing your humor, and your joy, and your life to work. If you can’t do that, you’re probably not in the right … If that feels restricting, too, then you’re probably not in the right space.


It feels like those companies who would accept applications from Facebook would take some of that into consideration. They’d be your more progressive work places.


Frank Coyle: See, I might disagree there because I think that the concept of bringing yourself to work is fine when you’re in a comfortable environment and you know all your people, and they know the goofy stuff you do, right? But, if this is me applying for a new job, then every thing’s exposed that I was comfortable with my friends at work, this current job, then it might not be quite ready for …


Brenna Teichen: A first impression.


Frank Coyle: For a first impression, yeah.


Maureen Jann: Yeah, but it’s interesting ’cause Facebook, themselves, when they hire … I mean, they have access to everything.


Frank Coyle: Oh, yeah.


Maureen Jann: And they don’t make any bones about using that as part of their process.


Frank Coyle: Yeah.


Maureen Jann: They also have the whole, bring your whole self to work thing, is a fundamental part of their culture.


Frank Coyle: Oh it’d have to be. That’s the … Exactly. That’s the [crosstalk 00:13:59].


Maureen Jann: So fascinating. I have a friend who’s a trainer for Facebook. Yeah, he’s always … He’s the one who actually told me that, bring your whole self to work. That whole idea. I just thought that was fascinating, so.


Anyway, it’s just … It’s interesting, and I also think, you know I always go back to what are the [inaudible 00:14:13] options. I mean, the sponsored job postings are just a different kind of advertising. So, it would be curious how long it takes them. Because I didn’t see any sponsorship options, did you?


Frank Coyle: Well, what I did see was … I just went in straight to the jobs page and then it had … It was basically ads, you know, and there wasn’t really a lot of organization. I had to keep flipping down. I went through some of those job titles that I saw, that I mentioned already to you.


Brenna Teichen: Oh.


Frank Coyle: So, there’s probably some better filtering, there’s some better stuff …


Brenna Teichen: Yeah.


Frank Coyle: I think it’s got a long way to go, but maybe Facebook will do something.


Maureen Jann: Yep, and it’s just a matter of time before they envelope LinkedIn entirely. Ah! It’s like a great horror movie.


Well, awesome Frank! It’s great to have you back again. We had a good time last time we did the podcast.


Frank Coyle: It was fantastic, yeah. Yep.


Maureen Jann: I have moments where I relive some of those conversations and I think, “Maybe I shouldn’t have said that to Frank on the podcast.”


Frank Coyle: I don’t remember them, so that’s all right. Suppose you should have, yeah. I am again today.


Maureen Jann: Right? Right? Maybe I should.


Frank Coyle: Yeah, we’re recording this. So, I’m going to play this back.


Maureen Jann: Yeah, right? Let’s get to know Brenna a little better. Brenna Teichen, she’s a Client Manager here at Point It. Tell us how long you’ve been here, and what you do for us, and all that good stuff.


Brenna Teichen: I’ve been with Point It for two years, and, no, I didn’t apply for a job recently. It’s a really fun place to work and everyone here is like family, so I’m really happy to be here. I’m from the Seattle area, specifically Redmond. So I grew up here, and it just feels like home. I feel very in my element, so very happy to be here.


There’s a lot of different clients I work with and I primarily just do paid search. So, working with e-commerce clients to finance clients to healthcare. So, I kind of work across the board in terms of what kind of industries.


Maureen Jann: Right on. Well, that’s great. I understand you guys will be talking about paid search for B2B. Acronym madness. So, let’s dig into that a little more. Let’s talk about that. I know you did a lunch-and-learn more recently on this, which is a series of events that we do in-house to educate each other about the expertise that we bring to the table, which is really fun. I heard it went really well.


Brenna Teichen: Mm-hmm (affirmative)


Maureen Jann: Yeah


Brenna Teichen: It went really well. We had a lot of, you know, collaboration and good questions, so it’s kind of a different aspect to paid search that a lot of people struggle with. But, it’s still something that … A hurdle that we, as paid search professionals, try and overcome. So, that’s kind of what we discussed in the lunch-and-learn earlier this week.


Maureen Jann: Right on. I know, I was a B2B marketer myself, it is a genuine challenge to take digital marketing and make sure it’s meaningful and helpful. But then I had somebody tell me this morning, and I thought this was really good advice, is it’s not B2B anymore, it’s not B2C anymore, it’s really human to human. And I just thought, that’s such good advice. So, I’m curious to hear how you approach the B2B specific realm, and I’m sure that there’s a lovely human element there too. So, can you tell me a little bit about what type of B2B companies would benefit from paid search?


Brenna Teichen: I think, really anyone, because everyone goes to Google and Bing to search for these companies. What makes B2B interesting is you’re trying to target a specific human, so the decision makers at a company. Which they search on the same things the normal everyday consumer would. So, that’s what is one of the challenges, I think, is really how do you target these specific individuals?


But, in terms of who paid search is appropriate for, I think it would be anybody that could sell their product or service to a consumer.


Frank Coyle: To what extent does it depend on the selling time, you know, the length of sale? ‘Cause I’m sure there’s a time, and I’m coming to you ’cause I need to be leads tomorrow.


Brenna Teichen: Mm-hmm (affirmative)


Frank Coyle: What are you going to tell me?


Brenna Teichen: Yeah, well, that’s one of the challenges we covered, right? Is that timeline and having that understanding. Showing that data for the client, there isn’t such an immediacy that you would get from B2C. So, that’s definitely something you’d have to talk about with them from the get-go. However, with our B2B clients, right now, we do show the value in the revenue impact with what we’re doing for them, in terms of paid search. It just takes a little bit longer to see that revenue come through.


Frank Coyle: So, what can that stretch from that you’ve seen in a paid search? Because if it’s not happening, like, in this weekend as an e-commerce, how do you set expectations that it could be one month, two months, three months down the road?


Brenna Teichen: Yeah, so, the shortest window is typically 30 days. But, even some of our clients it’s 90+ days. So, that can be quite a bit, you know … In terms of setting expectations, a lot of out B2B clients do understand the value of driving those upper funnel leads. So, driving people to the sight where they can complete a form, or maybe they’re interested in a demo or a trial, but they haven’t necessarily signed up for the product or service.


Maureen Jann: Sure.


Brenna Teichen: So, they still associate a value to that initial action. It’s just a matter of getting them to understand that it’ll take time, and they’re usually used to their sale cycle being kind of long so that they can see that.


Maureen Jann: Sure.


Brenna Teichen: Reporting on that is usually just showing relative, you know … You’re using the data directionally, so you can see how many of those initial leads are coming through and showing that growth. After sometime, you can show the revenue impact once those start converting to lower funnel leads.


Frank Coyle: What do you find … What do you find …


Maureen Jann: Frank’s bogarting my show. Go on.


Frank Coyle: Oh, sorry! Okay, I thought it was a joined performance here.


Maureen Jann: Carry on.


Frank Coyle: Question for you.


Brenna Teichen: Yeah.


Frank Coyle: There’s a whole range of things that would make somebody that you try to take people to fill out a form. So, what kind of things are current? Is the white paper still … Is that a thing of the past? What works today, and what doesn’t work?


Brenna Teichen: Some people are interested in white papers. I know one of our clients, they sold social analytics reporting, and they were really wanting people to do white papers, downloads, things like that. Because they’re trying to get other companies to understand and appreciate the value of social media. So, I think there’s a little bit more interest in white paper downloads, than another B2B client. Such as, someone in the finance industry. Where it might not be super interesting, as much. Or …


Frank Coyle: What might you do in that situation?


Brenna Teichen: I haven’t had, personally, finance or any of those types of industries have a white paper to download. For them, it’s mostly just calls or prospects.


Frank Coyle: So, fill out a form to get contacted?


Brenna Teichen: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah.


Frank Coyle: All right, okay.


Brenna Teichen: That’s typically what you would see from that type of client.


Frank Coyle: Okay. Your turn Maureen.


Maureen Jann: I think you covered all my questions.


Frank Coyle: No … Get out of here.


Maureen Jann: What am I going to do now?


Frank Coyle: You are never short of questions.


Maureen Jann: Well, I think we covered the challenges, for sure. The approaches, it looks like we covered that, too. I think, though, the last one that I would be really interested to dive a little deeper in is, what advice would you give to B2B companies who are struggling with paid search?


Like, let’s say they have a paid search campaign … Account. There we go, account. When they have a paid search account, and they’re looking to improve their results. What are some basic tips you would give them to get started?


Brenna Teichen: To get started, hire us!


Maureen Jann: Oh, yeah, clearly. A gratuitous plug.


Brenna Teichen: I think, understanding your CRM platform is huge. There’s a lot of … So, for us, one of the biggest challenges is being able to integrate that data into AdWords for us to actually optimize to.


Maureen Jann: Sure.


Brenna Teichen: Often times, the first step is just setting everything up. To have that data flow seamlessly from their back end into our front end, so that when we’re bidding we can actually bid to the lower funnel, instead of just the upper funnel. That way you can really optimize towards what their ultimate goal is, which is a long-time valued customer.


Maureen Jann: Yeah.


Brenna Teichen: So, having that data be able to flow in AdWords fairly recently, within the past, I want to say, six months, has started implementing Salesforce integration.


Maureen Jann: It’s about time. ‘Cause they had it for a long time, and then they tossed it out …


Frank Coyle: Yeah. Salesforce [inaudible 00:22:53]


Brenna Teichen: Yeah. It’s just frustrating.


Frank Coyle: Have to remember that, plug in [inaudible 00:22:57].


Maureen Jann: Yeah, and then you were like, “What do I do? What do I do now?”


Especially for those of us who use Salesforce, it’s like the center of truth. We do. I couldn’t believe that that was gone.


Brenna Teichen: Then, you can see as it continues … ‘Cause even once you get passed the lead form, there’s so many other steps that, depending on the client, they might have three to six steps after that. You can, apparently, be able to track that within AdWords as they move down the funnel even further.


Frank Coyle: So, when you’re CR do you say you integrate them. So, what goes into the CRM system, apart from obviously the lead information. Name, address, entering phone number. What else could send over …


Brenna Teichen: Typically in Salesforce a client would have … If it’s a marketing qualified lead, a sales qualified lead, as they pass through. Typically, for the finance client that we had, someone would fill out a form, and sales would then contact this individual.


Frank Coyle: What would come through from AdWords? Would the keyword come through? Or …


Brenna Teichen: Yeah, you could do it to that level. There’s a lot of initial setup on their end, which we obviously don’t have visibility into how their Salesforce is set up. So, that’s one of the first steps that they would have to take to start improving their paid search, is really trying to change up their Salesforce settings, or whatever CRM platform that they’re using in order to make that easy integration.


Maureen Jann: Yeah, that makes sense. Then, I know that from our experience when we do … You get a lead that comes in from any of our sources, and it comes in through a campaign. But, then there’s additional information that shows up in the lead that gives you the double-click into the, how did they come in? What keyword did they come in? That kind of thing, it’s part of their lead record. So, I imagine this probably works pretty similarly.


Do you see a lot of marketing automation being … Do you have a lot of conversations around marketing automation when you’re dealing with, you know, for the follow up on … Or is that just not a part of the B2B campaigns that you get involved in?


Brenna Teichen: By automation, do you mean this data integration?


Maureen Jann: Yeah, it’s sort of like that.


Frank Coyle: Like Marketo.


Maureen Jann: Yeah, like Marketo, that next step stuff. I don’t know how involved you guys get into that.


Brenna Teichen: We don’t get to involved, again that’s more their back end. I know that I’ve had clients use Bizible as another solution, because they couldn’t update their Salesforce. They had a lot of red tape that they couldn’t go through.


Maureen Jann: Sure.


Brenna Teichen: Bizible, actually, was able to score the leads that came through, which was interesting. So, what we ended up doing was, someone would complete the form, they’d get a score. Well, we used a calculated revenue on that score and you could adjust that within the pixels so that it would fire back that revenue into AdWords, and then you could bid to a target calculated revenue. To try and get to your ROY goal.


Maureen Jann: Right on. Bizible is another Seattle company, too. Right in Pioneer Square.


Brenna Teichen: Yeah, Seattle.


Frank Coyle: Yeah, pretty close by.


Maureen Jann: Northwest, representing.


Brenna Teichen: Yep.


Maureen Jann: Any other tips you would give to B2B companies who are struggling in paid search? Outside of the CRM.


Brenna Teichen: Easier said than done. But I would just say, have a good strategic plan and be patient. It will take longer to see testing results. It’s kind of difficult, because with seeing numbers we just tend to overreact, or react too quickly, and say it’s not working. But, you can’t really do that with B2B. You have to believe in either your agency, or your paid search team, to know that this test or strategy is pretty valid. We have high hopes for it, but we have to see it through.


Frank Coyle: So testings longer in B2B, than B2C.


Brenna Teichen: Tests take long, yeah. They take longer, ’cause you just won’t see that.


Frank Coyle: The volume, yeah.


Brenna Teichen: A lot of times, it’s mostly impatience that you have to battle, because you want to see what’s going to happen. The numbers aren’t really changing quite yet. But if you want to test ad copy, you’re going to have to wait longer. So, having that realistic timeline of the different learnings, and just understand that it will take time to see … It’ll payoff, ’cause you’ll know if it worked or not. It’ll take some patience for sure, which isn’t always easy.


Maureen Jann: Yeah, especially when you have …


Frank Coyle: Right, just trying to get results.


Maureen Jann: Yeah, and if you have corporate pressure to get those great results and make sure you’re achieving your goals, it’s hard to … I think that impatience ends up making you forget all the fundamental data signs, things that you learned as a marketer.


It takes time to get sample data, and you need sample data to make good decisions. We’re running into that with some of the stuff we’re doing right now.


Frank Coyle: It doesn’t matter what you’re doing. If you were doing direct [inaudible 00:27:48] trade shows, outright calls. They all take a long time. I think, when adverts first came around, there’s this new thing, “Oh, it’s magic we can get results.” No.


No, it’s another channel, and it sometimes takes just as long as your other channels do. If it takes six months for a sales cycle over the phone or something, it’s probably going to take about the same through AdWords. You can reach more people, perhaps.


Maureen Jann: Yeah.


Frank Coyle: Just kind of the same expectations.


Brenna Teichen: I think, with digital, everyone you see is on their phone is used to … If something takes to long to download … When it comes to digital, I feel, is a little bit more impatient, because now things are so fast that we just want it now.


Frank Coyle: Yep.


Maureen Jann: Yeah. Instant gratification, that’s who we’ve become. It’s true.


Well, fantastic! I really appreciate you sharing your expertise with us. It’s been really fun. I know I learned a couple of things.


Thank you, Frank, for being a temporary host. Now I know who can take my place if I ever take a vacation.


Frank Coyle: You’re applying for vacation?


Maureen Jann: No!


Frank Coyle: Okay, I was going to be like, so …


Maureen Jann: I know, like …


Frank Coyle: So, when are you going on holiday?


Maureen Jann: I’m going to submit my vacation requests via podcast from now on. That’s happening.


All right, and thank you guys out in podcast land for joining us. We’ll be including any links, or notes, in the show notes for your reference. But truly, it’s been a pleasure to have so many new listeners, and watch our listeners grow.


If you have any suggestions on guests, or topics, that you’d like to see us cover, let us know by emailing us at


Sadly, it’s time to say good-bye. I’m Maureen Jann, signing off from Fine Point Digital Marketing Updates.


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So, looking forward to another week and for now, stay on point.



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